Used Zeiss Comet L3D 5M for sale (2,663)

Condition: like new (used), Year of construction: 2013, measuring range X-axis: 1,600 mm, measuring range Y-axis: 4,200 mm, measuring range Z-axis: 1,500 mm, workpiece weight (max.): 5,000 kg, Equipment: type plate available, CARL ZEISS CNC Coordinate Measuring Machine ACCURA II MASS 16/42/15 Year of manufacture: 2013 Refurbished: 2025 Measuring range: X=1600 mm, Y=4200 mm, Z=1500 mm Control: C99 SR VII Operating panel: BP26_SE Probe: VAST XT GOLD and RDS-CAA with VAST XXT Probe change rack: Multi Sensor Rack MSR Automatic temperature compensation Accuracy: VAST XT GOLD / RDS-CAA XXT MPE-E 3.6+L/300 4.9+L/200 R0 2.4 5.5 MPE-P 3.6 4.9 MPE-THP 3.7/68sec 4.7/68sec RONt 3.5 5.5 Dcjdpfjydnzcox Aipoh Equipment: Calibration sphere Exchange plates XT and XXT Changer rack positions Probe accessories Documentation Further accessories

Condition: used, Year of construction: 2014, Measuring machine Zeiss CMM Pro T2 advance 16/21, year of manufacture 2014 – in very good condition • Standard numerical control panel • Base plate dimensions: Length: 4,000 mm Width: 2,000 mm Height: 640 mm Total system height approx. 4,500 mm • Measuring range: X-axis: 3,200 mm Y-axis: 1,600 mm Dsdsw D R Nqjpfx Aipech Z-axis: 2,100 mm • Permissible workpiece weight: approx. 5,000 kg Software: Zeiss Caligo BASIS CNC, Zeiss Caligo QS-STAT • Length measurement deviation according to ISO 10360-2: MPE-E = (27 + L/80)μm

Condition: used, This listing is for a Zeiss Axioskop EL-Einsatz 5 Objectives Microscope. The unit is in full working condition and is ready for immediate release. Objective Lenses supplied: Plan 100/1.25 Plan 40X/0.66 Plan 20x/0.40 Achroplan 10x/0.25 SPL10/0.25 Zeiss Axioskop EL-Einsatz 5 Microscope Overview The Zeiss Axioskop EL-Einsatz 5 microscope is a sophisticated instrument designed for advanced microscopy tasks, particularly in research and clinical settings. Its range of objective lenses and features supports high-quality imaging and user-friendly operation. Key Features: Water Immersion: These objective lenses are designed for application in physiological salt solutions, making them perfect for examining thick biological specimens, such as brain sections. High Numerical Aperture (NA): The lenses feature high NA values (e.g., 0.80 for the 50x lens), enhancing light-gathering capability and image resolution, especially beneficial for fluorescence microscopy. Fluorescence Capabilities: The Axioskop EL-Einsatz 5 can capture fluorescent images across four channels. The system automatically adjusts brightness and white balance, simplifying the imaging process. Dodpoxxzlisfx Aipech Ergonomic Design: With an adjustable ergotube, users can comfortably position the eyepieces for extended use. Essential controls are conveniently located for ease of access. Smart Microscopy: The microscope is built for efficiency, featuring automatic adjustments that minimize the need for manual intervention, streamlining workflow. Applications: The Zeiss Axioskop EL-Einsatz 5 is suitable for a variety of applications, including: Materials Science and Metallography: Ideal for examining the microstructure of materials and conducting failure analysis. Physiology and Electrophysiology: Great for observing living cells and tissues, understanding physiological processes in real-time. Biomedical Research and Clinical Diagnostics: Useful for analysing biological samples, including histological sections and cultured cells, contributing to disease research and diagnostics. Microscopy Tasks Requiring Advanced Imaging Capabilities: Perfect for researchers needing high-resolution images and automation in their microscopy tasks.

Condition: used, This listing is for a Zeiss Standard 15 Microscope Objectives F2,5/0,08 F10.25 Dodoxzg Tqepfx Aipjch F40/0,65

Condition: like new (used), Year of construction: 2024, functionality: fully functional, Scanning Electron Microscope (SEM) Zeiss XB 350 Configuration and Accessories • Without FIB Column • SmartSEM- and SmartFIB-Software • GIS with Pt Precursor • Integrated Plasma Cleaner • EDS Oxford Xplore 30 (incl. Interface & Software) • Automatically 200 mm Air Lock • Electrical Feed-Through (2 x 15 Channels) • Circulation Cooling • Vacuum Buffer Tank (Quiet Mode) • ... and Table, Screen, Control Panel (i.e. Unique Zeiss Keyboard + Joystick) and Misc. Probe Holders Dcsdpfx Aijw Rdvvopeh Launch: August 2024 Site: Germany, Mainz Available at short notice by arrangement. The SEM is still in operation and can be viewed and demonstrated. The device has no defects or quirks and is fully functional. Further information available on request!

Condition: ready for operation (used), Year of construction: 2006, functionality: fully functional, machine/vehicle number: 133084, measuring range X-axis: 3,000 mm, measuring range Y-axis: 1,600 mm, measuring range Z-axis: 2,100 mm, Carl Zeiss Pro T compact 3D coordinate measuring machine TECHNICAL DETAILS Control: C99S / FW: 19:05 Measuring head: RDS CAA No. 165: TP20 Measuring software: CMM-OS 5.4.12 Calibration sphere: 13320 r=15.00000 Measuring range: 3,000 x 1,600 x 2,100 mm CMM expansion coefficient X: 11.9 x 10-6 K-1 CMM expansion coefficient Y: 11.9 x 10-6 K-1 CMM expansion coefficient Z: 10.4 x 10-6 K-1 Dcedpfx Aisyclnkspsh Holos software version: Holos 2.10 SP23 Rev. 3712 CMM-OS software version: CMM-OS 5.4 MACHINE DETAILS Length: 3,500 mm Width: 2,030 mm Height: 3,600 mm Calibration certificate and maintenance schedule from 2022 available

Condition: good (used), Turning tool holder, steel holder, turning tool, turning tool holder, tool holder, axial tool holder, change holder, turning tool holder, clamp holder, turning tool holder -Tool holder: steel holder -Type: B IV hexagon 28 mm -Dimensions: see photos / technical drawing Dcodpfxjww Elme Aipsh -Number: 2x holders available -Price: per piece -Dimensions: 210/42/H45 mm -Weight: 2.0 kg/pc.

Condition: excellent (used), Scaningprobe for Zeiss UMM series Dcsdpfx Aiehgigbspsh with probe change adapter

Condition: used, Year of construction: 2022, - Brand : Comet - Type: Leopard 25 - Year of construction: 2025 - Weight: 4070 kg. - Hours : 652 hours - Drive: Petrol + 220 volts Dcodpowhqifofx Aipsh - Working height: 25.5 meters - Lateral reach: 11.5 meters - Lifting capacity: 200 kg. - Remote control - Adjustable tracks - Rotatable work tray - New safety inspection - Aerial work platform book available - CE document available - Video on our website - Trade-in and transport possible * Brand: Comet *Type: Leopard 25 * Construction year: 2025 * Weight: 4070 kg. * Hours: 652 hours * Drive: Petrol + 220 volts * Working height: 25.5 meters * Lateral reach: 11.5 meters * Lifting capacity: 200 kg.

Condition: excellent (used), Zeiss Coordinate Measuring Machine Model: O-INSPECT 442 Machine Designation: Coordinate Measuring Machine Machine Type: O-INSPECT 442 The multisensor measuring machine O-INSPECT ZEISS enables optimal optical or contact measurement of all features. The CALYPSO software simultaneously displays the actual state, nominal profile, and deviations, making measurement results easy to identify and interpret. General Data: Dimensions: Width 1055 mm, Length 1351 mm, Height 1770 mm Measuring range: X 400 mm, Y 400 mm, Z 200 mm Weight: CMM 800 kg Workpiece, max. 20 kg CMM noise level < 70 dBA Electrical Data: Supply voltage: 100, 110, 120, 125, 230, 240 V~ (± 10 %) Current type: 1 / N / PE Frequency: 50 to 60 Hz (± 3.5 %) Power consumption: max. 1500 VA Fuses: At 230 V or 240 V: 16 A At 100 V or 125 V: 15 A Travel Speeds: Creep speed, SLOW function: 0 to 5 mm/s Setup mode: 0 to 70 mm/s Automatic measurement: Axis (X, Y) max. 200 mm/s Axis (Z) max. 50 mm/s Axis (3D) max. 287 mm/s Ambient Conditions: The following conditions must be met for proper operation of the measuring machine. Operating ambient temperature: +17°C to +35°C Relative humidity: 40% to 70% (non-condensing) Room temperature for measurement: 20°C ±1 K Altitude above sea level: 100–125 V: max. 3000 m 230–240 V: max. 2000 m Probe System: Probe System: CFS Probe Types Data: Probe Type: CFS 2 mm Measuring range: 2 mm, Working distance: 61 mm, Spot diameter: 12.5 µm Measurable surface angle to beam direction: 90 ± 15° Measuring range: 3 mm, Working distance: 22.5 mm, Spot diameter: 12 µm Measurable surface angle to beam direction: 90 ± 30° Measuring range: 10 mm, Working distance: 70 mm, Spot diameter: 24 µm Measurable surface angle to beam direction: 90 ± 20° The values for surface angles are limit values and depend on the reflectivity of the workpiece surface. Rotary Table: Mass and resolution Table weight: 7 kg Resolution: 0.15’’ Dynamics: Angular speed max: 50°/s Rotational speed: 8.3 min⁻¹ Scope of Delivery: In the standard version, the O-INSPECT coordinate measuring machine is supplied with the following components: - Coordinate measuring machine (CMM) - Controller (integrated) - Control panel - PC with peripherals - Software - CALYPSO 5.2 - Documentation - Probe system - Reference stylus - Calibration artifact - Calibration template Scope of delivery: (Zeiss coordinate measuring machine as shown) Condition: used (Specifications subject to change and errors excepted!) Please inquire about transport options prior to purchase. Djdew Titlopfx Aipjch If you have further questions, we are happy to assist you by phone.

Condition: excellent (used), ZEISS Type: DSM 962 The digitized scanning electron microscope DSM 962 is equipped with an integrated 4 MB image memory, a 40 MB hard disk for internal image storage and drives for external storage of data and images. hard disk for internal image storage and drives for external storage of data and images. This makes it possible to quickly and easily gain insights into the composition and morphology of morphology of specimen surfaces far into the sub-micrometer range. With magnification range from 5x to 300,000x, both macrostructures and microstructures can be examined. as well as microstructures is possible. Dsdpofcwwnsfx Aipech The range of applications can be extended considerably by adding special accessories, allowing, for example analytical investigations in micro areas of the surface are possible. The device can be operated both via conventional switching elements and via the keyboard or mouse (add-on). or mouse (add-on). Electron optics and vacuum control are conventional. Functions of the Image memory functions are operated using the keyboard or mouse (add-on). A separate information screen is located centrally on the separate information screen for displaying the menus. These operating instructions are intended as a guide to help the user achieve the best possible results with the device. results with the appliance. The explanations have been kept as simple as possible so that even a less experienced user less experienced users the necessary tools. Magnification range: 20x to 300,000x at 7 mm working distance Stages in a sequence of 1-2-3-5-10 Minimum magnification: 5x at 50 mm working distance Resolution: 4 nm - guaranteed with tungsten cathode at 30 kV, 6 mm working distance, untipped specimen 25 nm - guaranteed with tungsten cathode at 1kV, 6 mm working distance, untipped specimen 3.5 nm - guaranteed with optimal LaB6 cathode at 30 kV, 6 mm working distance, untilted specimen Scope of delivery: (DSM 962 with accessories as shown) Condition: used (Subject to changes and errors in technical data and specifications) Please ask about transportation options before purchasing. We will be happy to answer any further questions you may have over the phone.

Year of construction: 2018, condition: as good as new (ex-display), Grinding stone Make Comet Type 3760 1/2 10 C 320 H I 7 V Dcsdpfx Aief Etr Rjpjh EK 5120 Weight 6,6 kg

Condition: excellent (used), Clamp holder make Comet FG IIII (28396) Dodpfxsmk E Uie Aipsch for Comet threaded steel FG IIII TR 12

Condition: ready for operation (used), Year of construction: 1999, functionality: fully functional, measuring range X-axis: 900 mm, measuring range Y-axis: 1,200 mm, measuring range Z-axis: 700 mm, controller model: C98 mit Bedienpult, The machine was retrofitted in 2019 and equipped with a new computer running Calypso software and the VAST Gold probe head! The last calibration was performed in June 2021! TECHNICAL DETAILS Measuring range X-axis: 900 mm Measuring range Y-axis: 1,200 mm Measuring range Z-axis: 700 mm MACHINE DETAILS Control: C98 with control panel EQUIPMENT VAST Gold probe head 7-position probe change magazine Probe change rack Probe accessories Calibration sphere Dcsdpfsya Hfxox Aipoh Technical documentation Workstation with monitor Calypso Basic software

Condition: used, Year of construction: 2011, functionality: fully functional, machine/vehicle number: 141447, Technical characteristics: Max. measuring range in mm X axis 500; Y axis 500; Z axis 500 Dimensions in mm Without base: length: 1160; width: 1080; height: 1803 With base: length: 1170; width: 1090; height: 2480 Mass of CMM in kg: without base: 350 with base: 445 Max admissible workpiece mass in kg: 100 Equipment consists of: Coordinate measuring machine (CMM) with base Control (integrated) Control console Software (Calipso 5.4) Documents Probing system Master stylus Reference standard Changer rack Machine status: WORKING Dodpfx Asxxvbreipjch

Condition: used, Year of construction: 2013, functionality: fully functional, machine/vehicle number: 201310504039 623534 -9805-130, Technical characteristics: 📏 Measuring Range & Dimensions X-axis: 700 mm Y-axis: 1000 mm Z-axis: 600 mm Maximum workpiece weight: approx. 730 kg Table height: 850 mm Machine footprint: approx. 1600 × 2100 mm Height: approx. 2800 mm 🧠 Accuracy & Performance Length measurement error (MPE): VAST XXT: (1.8 + L/300) µm TP20/TP200: (2.2 + L/300) µm Probing error (MPE_P): VAST XXT: 1.8 µm TP20/TP200: 2.0 µm Scanning performance: Up to 500 points/sec VAST Navigator and Fly Mode for optimized path planning 🔧 Sensor & Probe Options Probe head: ZEISS VAST XXT or RDS articulating head Stylus length: Up to 150 mm (TL3 module) Stylus weight: Max. 15 g Angular positions: 20,736 with CAA correction Optional sensors: ZEISS ViScan (optical) ZEISS LineScan (laser triangulation) ZEISS DotScan (white light confocal) 🌡️ Environmental Conditions Operating temperature: 17–35 °C Guaranteed accuracy: 18–22 °C Humidity: 30–60% (non-condensing) Dedpjxxu Hgjfx Aipoch Vibration damping: Integrated passive system ⚡ Utilities & Control Power supply: 100–240 V AC, 50–60 Hz Maximum power consumption: approx. 800 VA Compressed air: 6–8 bar, max. 120 Nl/min Controller: ZEISS C99L with CALYPSO software Protection class: IP53 Machine status: WORKING

Condition: used, Year of construction: 2016, functionality: fully functional, machine/vehicle number: 202539, Technical characteristics: 📏 Measuring Range & Dimensions X-axis: 900 mm Y-axis: 1200 mm Z-axis: 700 mm Max. workpiece weight: ~1,300 kg Machine footprint: ~2,040 × 1,495 mm Height: ~3,030 mm Table height: 850 mm 🧠 Accuracy & Performance Length measurement error (MPE): Standard: 1.5 + L/350 µm Enhanced (Navigator mode): 0.9 + L/350 µm Probing error (MPE_P): 1.2 µm Scanning error (MPE_THP): 1.7 µm Form measurement error (RONt): 1.3 µm Repeatability (MPL): 0.7 µm Scanning speed: Up to 500 points/sec Acceleration: Up to 1.2 m/s² Max. vector speed: 520 mm/s 🔧 Sensor & Probe Options Standard probe: ZEISS VAST gold or VAST XTR gold Stylus length: Up to 800 mm Stylus weight: Max. 600 g Minimum stylus tip diameter: 0.3 mm Multi-sensor support: Optical (ViScan, LineScan), tactile (VAST XXT, RDS) Dcedjxxvldjpfx Aipeh 🌡️ Environmental Conditions Operating temperature: 15–30 °C Accuracy guaranteed: 18–22 °C Humidity: 30–60% non-condensing Vibration damping: Passive elastomer system ⚙️ Control & Software Controller: ZEISS C99L Software: ZEISS CALYPSO, HOLOS, GEAR PRO CAA (Computer-Aided Accuracy): Real-time dynamic correction Navigator technology: Automatically adjusts scanning speed for optimal precision Machine status: WORKING

Condition: used, Year of construction: 2016, functionality: fully functional, machine/vehicle number: 202308, Technical characteristics: 📏 Measuring Range & Dimensions X-axis: 900 mm Y-axis: 1200 mm Z-axis: 700 mm Max. workpiece weight: approx. 1,300 kg Machine footprint: approx. 2,040 × 1,495 mm Dcodpfx Aoxxvkyjipjh Height: approx. 3,030 mm Table height: 850 mm 🧠 Accuracy & Performance Length measurement error (MPE): - Standard: 1.5 + L/350 µm - Enhanced (Navigator mode): 0.9 + L/350 µm Probing error (MPE_P): 1.2 µm Scanning error (MPE_THP): 1.7 µm Form measurement error (RONt): 1.3 µm Repeatability (MPL): 0.7 µm Scanning speed: up to 500 points/sec Acceleration: up to 1.2 m/s² Max. vector speed: 520 mm/s 🔧 Sensor & Probe Options Standard probe: ZEISS VAST gold or VAST XTR gold Stylus length: up to 800 mm Stylus weight: max. 600 g Minimum stylus tip diameter: 0.3 mm Multi-sensor support: Optical (ViScan, LineScan), tactile (VAST XXT, RDS) 🌡️ Environmental Conditions Operating temperature: 15–30 °C Guaranteed accuracy: 18–22 °C Humidity: 30–60% non-condensing Vibration damping: Passive elastomer system ⚙️ Control & Software Controller: ZEISS C99L Software: ZEISS CALYPSO, HOLOS, GEAR PRO CAA (Computer-Aided Accuracy): Real-time dynamic correction Navigator technology: Automatically adjusts scanning speed for optimal precision Machine status: WORKING

Condition: like new (used), Year of construction: 2024, functionality: fully functional, warranty duration: 12 months, total height: 83 mm, type of input current: AC, total width: 340 mm, total length: 240 mm, overall weight: 4 kg, Equipment: documentation/manual, For sale is a ZEISS ATOS Q 8M, a high-precision optical 3D scanner designed for demanding measurement and inspection applications. Ideal for precise 3D measurements in industrial and research settings. Quick setup and easy operation. Condition: Lightly used, primarily for trade shows, exhibitions, and training purposes. Scope of delivery: - ZEISS ATOS Q 8M scanner with MV500 - Original accessories as per standard configuration - Power supplies and cables - 10 m fiber optic cable - Includes tripod - Transport case included - Laptop included - Operating system: Windows 10 - ZEISS INSPECT OPTICAL 3D ZEISS INSPECT OPTICAL 3D Free: - Open and edit new and existing projects - Import of point clouds, polygon meshes Dedpfx Aiow Nx D Ejpjch - Create, edit, and process polygon meshes - Element construction: standard geometries, points, sections, curves, surfaces, dimensions - Import of standard CAD formats: IGES, VDA, STEP, JT Open, STL, PLY - Application of common alignment methods - CAD comparison with color-coded deviation visualization - Dimensional and GD&T evaluations according to ISO GPS and ASME Y14.5 - Reporting module Note: This device has only been used for demonstration, training, and presentation purposes, so some signs of use are visible. 3D acceptance certificate is available. In addition, when purchasing the ATOS Q, we would also consider trading in older GOM systems.

Condition: like new (used), Year of construction: 2024, functionality: fully functional, warranty duration: 12 months, type of input current: AC, overall weight: 1 kg, For sale: ZEISS T-Scan Hawk 2, a high-precision optical 3D scanner designed for demanding measurement and inspection tasks. Ideal for precise 3D measurements in industrial and research applications, especially when components need to be measured in challenging environments. Fast application, easy operation. Condition: Lightly used, predominantly for trade shows, exhibitions, and training purposes only. Scope of delivery: · T-Scan Hawk 2 Lite · Class 2 blue laser, eye-safe (IEC 60825-1:2014) · Weight: < 1 kg · Calibration plate (DAkkS-calibrated) · Sensor cable · Transport case · Acceptance test in our facility with calibration bars in accordance with ISO 10360 · Acceptance certificate with traceability documentation · ZEISS INSPECT OPTICAL 3D Free · T-SCAN Hawk 2 sensor driver ZEISS INSPECT OPTICAL 3D Free · Open and edit new and existing projects · Import of point clouds, polygon meshes · Creation, editing, and processing of polygon meshes · Element construction: standard geometries, points, sections, curves, surfaces, dimensions · CAD import for standard formats: IGES, VDA, STEP, JT Open, STL, PLY · Application of common alignment methods · CAD comparison with colored deviation display · Dimensioning and geometric tolerancing analysis according to ISO GPS and ASME Y14.5 · Reporting module T-SCAN Hawk 2 Sensor Driver · Setup and calibration · Guided user calibration · Data acquisition and project management · Configurable workflow assistant · Switching measurement modes and setting exposure time directly on the sensor · Automatic sensor calibration monitoring · Pre-capture of reference points with graphic support · Real-time display of sensor position and acquired 3D scan data · Continuous transformation into a common coordinate system · Merging upper and lower surfaces · Removal of background points · Automatic calculation and export of non-overlapping polygon meshes · Export of scan data (e.g., G3D format, STL format) Dodpfxew Swpls Aipech Note: The device was exclusively used for demonstration, training, and exhibition purposes, so some signs of use are visible. If required, we can provide a suitable laptop for an additional charge. 3D acceptance certificate available. We are also open to trade-in of older GOM systems upon purchase of the T-SCAN Hawk 2.

Condition: used, functionality: fully functional, Year of construction: 1986, machine/vehicle number: ROD372, Technical data: 1x Demag KBK 2 pillar jib crane SWL 1000kg with chain hoist Capacity at full outreach: 1000kg / 1 ton SWL Height: approx. 4.05m Underside of jib: approx. 3.15m Outreach: 5m Hook height: approx. 2.55m Total weight: approx. 950kg With Demag PK chain hoist 1000kg Incl. pins, cable trolley, travel mechanism, end cap, etc. Slew range 300°, connection 400V 16A Crane is dismantled and available immediately Dcjdpfjxmutpjx Aipeh Item location: 75053 Gondelsheim Further cranes available, capacity 80–5000kg, please inquire See pictures Dispatch by freight forwarder or collection by appointment only

Condition: ready for operation (used), Year of construction: 2021, operating hours: 20 h, functionality: fully functional, machine/vehicle number: SK02UXKP0365, measuring range X-axis: 550 mm, measuring range Y-axis: 600 mm, Auction of a Zeiss T-Scan Hawk with only 20 operating hours! TECHNICAL DETAILS Maximum measuring range: 550 mm x 600 mm Dsdjx Sqfnjpfx Aipjch Measuring accuracy: 0.02 mm + 0.035 mm/m MACHINE DETAILS Laser class: Class 2M (eye-safe) according to IEC 60825-1:2014 Operating hours: 20 EQUIPMENT Notebook GOM Inspect software

Year of construction: 1995, condition: used, x-travel 9200 mm y-travel 1600 mm z-travel 2400 mm dia. of test piece mm working area mm dist. between centers mm control ZEISS C 99 total power requirement kW Djdpfx Aijt Hwwkjpech weight of the machine ca. 30 t dimensions of the machine ca. 10 x 3,6 m

Year of construction: 1990, condition: used, x-travel 850 mm y-travel 1200 mm Dcedpfx Aijt Hwqkopsh z-travel 600 mm total power requirement kW weight of the machine ca. t dimensions of the machine ca. m Universal 3D measuring center, double-column, modern software, many accessories

Condition: used, Year of construction: 1988, Zeiss WMM 850 Year of manufacture: 1988 Completely overhauled by Zeiss in 2008 Dcodpfxjxurcde Aipjh • I purchased the machine in 2008 fully overhauled by the manufacturer. It has seen little use since then. • The machine is not operational, as a defect in the motherboard of the PC prevents the software from being reinstalled. • Furthermore, the software is discontinued by Zeiss and must be replaced with a current version. • The price for new software including hardware and training is €29,100 (as of March 2024). This offer was tailored to my needs and is provided for informational purposes. • Since the machine has been used very little, there is virtually no wear on the bearings and drives. • A set of probes from the basic equipment is included; only a few of these have ever been used.