Used Support Post U-Profile Connecting Post for sale (59,859)

Condition: good (used), The scope of delivery includes: 01x support post, used Material color: blue total length: approx. 1.660 mm profile dimension: U: 70 x 30 mm material thickness: approx. 2,00 mm number of drill holes: 02 pcs. Iasdpfsk Uufxox Apcsr Drill hole Ø: approx. 11 mm Base plate dimension: approx. 130 x 130 x 3.00 mm Weight / pcs. : approx. 3,570 kg

Condition: used, for sheet thickness up to: 7 mm blade length: 175 mm Round material up to: 20 mm Iasdpfxedp U Apj Apcsr square material up to: 18 mm space requirement: 1000 x 770 x 690 mm hand-guided

Condition: used, 5-fold combined profile steel shears PEDDINGHAUS type 210 AD/13 Machine. No. 529A059 Year of manufacture approx. 1970 Punching machine: Punching force 60 ton. Punch stroke 25.5 mm Punching capacity Ø 25 mm in 16 mm sheet metal Ø 20 mm in 19 mm sheet metal throat depth 365 mm Bar steel shears: Cutting capacity Round 42 mm Square 38 x 38 mm Flat steel shears: Cutting capacity with shearing angle 5° 150 x 13 mm or 200 x 10 mm Blade length 245 mm Profile steel shears: Shearing capacity angle steel at 90° 110 x 10 mm Shearing capacity angle steel at 45° 90 x 9 mm T-steel 110 x 10 mm Notching device: Rectangular notcher up to 12 mm sheet metal Punch dimensions 85 x 50 mm Ijdpfx Apoi Duh Iscear Motor power 3 kW Mains connection 380 Volt, 50 Hz. - Center punch detection device via hand lever and centering device - Mechanical stroke release via hand lever - Flat steel shears equipped with 2° blade - Mechanical hold-down device on the profile steel shears, bar steel shears and flat steel shears Space requirement L x W x H 1500 x 800 x 1900 mm Weight 2000 kg good condition

Condition: new, The scope of delivery includes: 01x stage support, new Manufacturer: SSI Schäfer design: corner connection / 90 suitable for CS Sigma profiles with a profile height of 300 mm type of screw connection: internal Material color: sendzimir galvanized Technical data of the stage support: Dimensions: approx. 140 x 275 x 105 mm (DxWxH) Hole spacing outside: approx. 250 mm Iajdpfx Asmv Dyzepcjr Hole spacing inside: approx. 130 mm Hole diameter: approx. 13 mm Material thickness: 3.00 mm

Condition: good (used), The scope of delivery includes: 01x U-profile, used Material color: blue total length: approx. 1.480 mm U-profile: approx. 50 x 50 mm material thickness: approx. 3,00 mm number of drill holes: 02 pcs. Drill hole Ø: approx. 11 mm Weight / pcs.: approx. 4,930 kg General information about the article: This article is offered for pickup only. Any additional transport or shipment of this or a dispatch of this article is connected with additional costs, which can be inquired separately Iaedpfolhqkwsx Apcjr depending on the delivery location or scope of delivery can be requested from us.

Condition: used, 2,000 running meters of construction profiles, U-shape Ijdpfx Aeulwiqopcoar Used goods, good condition, see pictures Galvanized Length per piece approx. 467 cm Profile 7.5/8 cm Material thickness approx. 3 mm Weight per piece approx. 43 kg Negotiated price: € 4.90 net/rm ex stock Available individually or in a package One package consists of 20 pieces - approx. 93.4 running meters Goods are in stock. Transportation possible on request. Viewing possible at any time by appointment. Further information on request. Over 5000 running meters of pallet racking from numerous manufacturers in stock. (Subject to changes and errors in technical data, specifications and prices as well as prior sale! See our GTC, all prices excl. VAT ex stock).

Condition: like new (used), Roller support, movable, for long profil Iodpfx Ash T Uxwepcoar

Condition: ready for operation (used), functionality: fully functional, maximum load weight: 7,500 kg, axle configuration: 3 axles, permissible axle load (axle 1): 12,000 kg, permissible axle load (axle 2): 10,000 kg, permissible axle load (axle 3): 10,000 kg, first registration: 11/2005, loading space volume: 24 m³, total length: 8,510 mm, total width: 2,550 mm, tire size: 315/80 R 22.5, Year of construction: 2005, Equipment: jockey wheel, tail-lift, 3-AXLE SEMI-TRAILER WITH 10 REAR TIPPER WHEELS, BRAND MINERVA SUPERSTAR MODEL. LENGTH 8,510 MM. Single owner. Equipped with 10 wheels, hydropneumatic suspension, electric tarpaulin cover, and rear extension for paver. Possibility of full coupling with certified and guaranteed tractor units, of which we have a wide selection in our used fleet, from the top premium brands on the market: DAF, SCANIA, MAN, VOLVO, IVECO. This is a Minerva Superstar tipper with 10 wheels, short wheelbase hydropneumatic suspension, steel body with 24 m³ capacity, original thickness 8/6 mm, unladen weight 7,500 kg. Excellent condition! Financing available for up to 60 installments at the best rates on the market. Please note: The description may contain errors or discrepancies compared to the actual specifications, which must be verified on site. This listing does not constitute any form of contractual commitment. For further information, please contact the numbers provided, also via WhatsApp direct. Paolo Antonio Gorgoni All vehicle photos are taken on site at our premises and are an accurate representation of the current condition. Please note that the system automatically inserts equipment and accessories, which may occasionally result in discrepancies. Iasdpfx Aeycf T Hspcor To ensure greater accuracy, we invite you to always verify all features by contacting us directly. Rear tipper body, 24 m³, length 8.50 meters, electric tarpaulin cover, rear extension for paver and operating accessories, 10 tyres.

Condition: new, Year of construction: 2025, TR series is a laser pipe cutting machine focusing on heavy pipe processing, the use of traditional horizontal bed, high bearing capacity, with mobile gantry structure, can cope with a variety of complex cutting conditions, widely used in building beams, pipeline processing, steel structure industry. Big tube and profile laser cutting machine. Up to diameter H profile till 12 meter tube or profile lenght laser head depend on material thickness. Power: 3-12kW Max. Raw Material Length: 12500mm Round Tube Diameter: Φ70-Φ680mm Square Tube Side Length: □70*70-□480*480mm Max. Acceleration: 0.5G Offer by request. => Installation and training include. Iodpjmxl S Asfx Apcjar

Condition: used, mileage: 111,000 km, power: 78 kW (106.05 HP), first registration: 12/2012, fuel type: diesel, overall weight: 3,500 kg, color: yellow, gearing type: automatic, emission class: euro5, loading space length: 4,350 mm, loading space width: 2,050 mm, loading space height: 2,070 mm, Equipment: ABS, central locking, electronic stability program (ESP), soot filter, Iveco Daily 35S11 / Size: 2 - Maxi / VAT deductible. Net price: €4,990 First registration: 12/2012 Mileage: 109,000 km ---- For more features/special equipment see below: ---- Please no emails - emails cannot be processed due to time constraints, thank you for your understanding! Opening hours and further information: Viewing and purchase without appointment possible: MON - THU: 9:00 am to 4:00 pm FRI: 9:00 am to 1:00 pm SAT: 9:00 am to 12:00 pm Address: Tabakried 11 84076 Pfeffenhausen For questions: Christian Hirsch Please try calling several times, as we are often in customer meetings. More offers at ---- Service history: yes Emission class: EURO 5 Emissions sticker: Green Previous owners: 1 Emission class: Euro 5 = Green sticker -Reversing camera -LED interior lighting with motion detector -Loading space length: 4.35 m -Loading space width: 2.05 m -Loading space height: 2.07 m Interior features: Cup holders, Power steering Exterior features: Sliding door, Electric side mirrors & heated, Central locking incl. remote control, Electric front windows Technology: Outside temperature display, On-board computer Safety & Environment: Driver airbag, Electronic immobilizer, ABS, ESP, Traction control, Particulate filter Miscellaneous: Non-smoker vehicle For questions: Christian Hirsch Please try calling several times, as we are often in customer meetings. More offers at / Specification determined via VIN query; technical errors may occur. Opening hours and further information: Viewing & purchase without appointment possible: MON - THU: 9:00 am to 4:00 pm FRI: 9:00 am to 1:00 pm SAT: 9:00 am to 12:00 pm Address: Tabakried 11 84076 Pfeffenhausen Ijdpeyx Rqkefx Apcoar Germany ----The information provided online are non-binding descriptions. They do not represent guaranteed features. The seller is not liable for typos and data transmission errors / changes / input errors. Subject to error and prior sale. For questions: Christian Hirsch Please try calling several times, as we are often in customer meetings. Specification determined via VIN query; technical errors may occur ----Further offers at / Sale only to traders or for export

Condition: used, mileage: 100 km, power: 100 kW (135.96 HP), fuel type: diesel, axle configuration: 4x2, wheelbase: 4,330 mm, fuel: diesel, color: white, gearing type: mechanical, number of gears: 6, emission class: euro6, number of seats: 2, total length: 6,200 mm, total width: 2,070 mm, total height: 2,480 mm, permissible axle load (axle 1): 1,850 kg, permissible axle load (axle 2): 2,100 kg, Year of construction: 2024, Equipment: ABS, air conditioning, central locking, cruise control, electric window regulation, power mirror, General information Number of doors: 3 Year of manufacture: 2024 Technical information Number of cylinders: 4 Engine capacity: 2.299 cc Max. front axle load: 1850 kg Max. rear axle load: 2100 kg Weights Empty weight: 2.043 kg Carrying capacity: 1.457 kg GVW: 3.500 kg Maintenance APK (MOT): tested until 12/2027 Financial information VAT/margin: VAT qualifying = Additional options and accessories = - Airbag - Alarmsysteem class 1 - Beifahrerbank - Front center armrest - Immobiliser Isdoyi Dvaopfx Apcoar - LED lighting cargo area - Outside temperature display - Radio - Radio/USB/Aux - Reversing camera - Running board - Side-Bars - Side door - Tined glass - Two rear doors can be rotated 270° = Remarks = Loading space completely finished with sliding door to loading space + scaffolding.

Condition: excellent (used), Year of construction: 2013, AMADA MODEL GS 11 840 8 mm x 4050 HYDRAULIC year 2013 PROGRAMMABLE CNC SHEAR STAINLESS STEEL CAPACITY 6mm Iedpfx Apeyr H U Docjar ALUMINIUM CAPACITY 10 mm CUTTING LENGTH 4050MM POWER BACK GAUGE 1000MM PNEUMATIC SHEET SUPPORTS SIDE GUAGE 1.5 METRE SERIAL NUMBER HOLD DOWN HYDRAULIC BLADE GAP ADJUSTMENT STANDARD VARIABLE RAKE STANDARD SHADOW LINE LIGHT STANDARD CENTRALISED LUBRICATION STANDARD SHADOW LINE LIGHT STANDARD STROKE COUNTER STANDARD ADJUSTABLE STROKE STANDARD MOTOR 16 KW WEIGHT 11650KG

Condition: used, Year of construction: 2015, Operational machine - has been in use daily. Vacuum chamber has not been used for the past 1,5 years due to no need. Isdpfx Apoxlqnyjcjar Center support can only be adjusted manually. Machine location is EU. Ask for additional information!

Condition: used, mileage: 84,000 km, power: 85 kW (115.57 HP), first registration: 12/2010, fuel type: diesel, overall weight: 3,500 kg, color: yellow, gearing type: automatic, emission class: euro4, loading space length: 4,350 mm, loading space width: 2,050 mm, loading space height: 2,070 mm, Equipment: ABS, central locking, electronic stability program (ESP), soot filter, Iveco Daily 35S12 / Size: 2 - Maxi / VAT shown. Net: 7.500.-¤. ---- Please no eMails / no eMails can only be processed sporadically due to time constraints!!! Thank you for your understanding. Opening hours and further information : Viewing & purchase possible without appointment: MO - DO: 9.00 to 16.00 FR: 9.00 - 13.00 SAT: 9.00 - 12.00 Address: Tabakried 11 84076 Pfeffenhausen D- Germany For questions: Christian Hirsch For questions: Christian Hirsch Please try more often as we are often in a customer meeting. ---- TÜV+HU: NEW Checkbook maintained: yes Emission class: EURO 4 Environmental sticker: green Previous owner: 1 Emission class: Euro 4 = green sticker -Reversing camera -LED interior lighting with motion detector -Load compartment length 4.35m -Load compartment width 2.05m -Load compartment height 2.07m Interior equipment: Cup holder, power steering Exterior equipment: Sliding door, Electric side mirrors & heated, Central locking incl. remote control, Power windows - front Technology: Outside air temperature, on-board computer Safety & environment: Driver airbag, El. immobilizer, ABS, ESP, traction control, particulate filter Other: Non-smoker For questions: Christian Hirsch For questions: Christian Hirsch Please try more often as we are often in a customer meeting. Further offers under / Further offers under / Equipment was determined with the help of a VIN query, errors may occur for technical reasons may occur Opening hours and further information : Viewing & purchase possible without appointment: Iaedowuq Dpspfx Apcor MO - DO: 9.00 to 16.00 FR: 9.00 - 13.00 SAT: 9.00 - 12.00 Address: Tabakried 11 84076 Pfeffenhausen D- Germany ----The information provided on the Internet are non-binding descriptions. They do not represent guaranteed properties. The seller is not liable for typing and data transmission errors / changes / input errors. Errors / prior sale reserved For questions: Christian Hirsch For questions: Christian Hirsch Further offers under / Further offers under / Equipment was determined with the help of a VIN query, errors may occur here for technical reasons ----Further offers under / Further offers under / Equipment was determined with the help of a VIN query, errors may occur here for technical reasons The information provided on the Internet are non-binding descriptions. They do not represent guaranteed characteristics. The seller is not liable for typing and data transmission errors / changes / input errors. Errors / prior sale reserved

Condition: used, mileage: 64,000 km, power: 85 kW (115.57 HP), first registration: 12/2012, fuel type: diesel, overall weight: 3,500 kg, color: yellow, gearing type: automatic, emission class: euro5, loading space length: 4,350 mm, loading space width: 2,050 mm, loading space height: 2,070 mm, Equipment: ABS, central locking, electronic stability program (ESP), soot filter, Iveco Daily 35S12 / Size: 2 - Maxi / VAT deductible. Net price: €7,550. ---- For additional features/special equipment, see below: ---- Please, no emails – emails cannot be processed due to time constraints. Thank you for your understanding! Opening hours and further information: Inspection and purchase without prior appointment possible: MON - THU: 9:00 to 16:00 FRI: 9:00 to 13:00 SAT: 9:00 to 12:00 Address: Tabakried 11 84076 Pfeffenhausen Germany For inquiries: Christian Hirsch Please try calling multiple times as we are often busy with customers. Further offers at / TÜV and emissions test: NEW Full service history: yes Emission class: EURO 4 Environmental badge: Green Previous owner: 1 - Reversing camera - LED interior lighting with motion detector - Load compartment length: 4.35 m - Load compartment width: 2.05 m - Load compartment height: 2.07 m Interior features: Cup holders Power steering Exterior features: Sliding door Electric & heated side mirrors Central locking incl. remote control Electric front windows Iasdpfjvh Svzox Apcsr Technology: Outside temperature display On-board computer Safety & Environment: Driver airbag Immobilizer ABS ESP Traction control Particulate filter Miscellaneous: Non-smoker vehicle For inquiries: Christian Hirsch Please try calling multiple times as we are often busy with customers. Further offers at / Specification determined via VIN inquiry, technical errors may occur. Opening hours and further information: Inspection & purchase without prior appointment possible: MON - THU: 9:00 to 16:00 FRI: 9:00 to 13:00 SAT: 9:00 to 12:00 Address: Tabakried 11 84076 Pfeffenhausen Germany ---- All details provided online are non-binding descriptions. They do not constitute guaranteed characteristics. The seller assumes no liability for typing or data transmission errors/changing information/input errors. Subject to error and prior sale. For inquiries: Christian Hirsch Further offers at / Specification determined via VIN inquiry, technical errors may occur. Further offers at / Specification determined via VIN inquiry, technical errors may occur. All details provided online are non-binding descriptions. They do not constitute guaranteed characteristics. The seller assumes no liability for typing or data transmission errors/changing information/input errors. Subject to error and prior sale.

Condition: new, functionality: fully functional, Year of construction: 2025, laser power: 20,000 W, travel distance X-axis: 3,500 mm, travel distance Y-axis: 28,000 mm, travel distance Z-axis: 850 mm, positioning speed: 40 m/min, workpiece weight (max.): 35,000 kg, input frequency: 50 Hz, type of input current: three-phase, warranty duration: 24 months, Equipment: CE marking, centralized greasing system, cooling unit, dust extraction, emergency stop, fume extraction, nozzle changer, safety light barrier, NS-12020H PROFILE STEEL LASER CUTTING AUTOMATION LINE Technical Specifications Laser Power: 12000W-20000W X-axis Travel: 3500mm Iaedpfx Apevmwxxecsr Y-axis Travel: 28000mm (customizable) Z-axis Travel: 800mm A-axis Travel: ±90° C-axis Travel: ±90° U-axis Travel: 30mm Maximum Speed: 40m/min Positioning Accuracy: ±0.1mm Main Features： Simple and Stylish Integrated simple structure with a mobile design. Features a main control panel, laser unit, chiller, electrical cabinet, and cantilever beam structure, all highly integrated for stable mobility and operation. Quality Assurance Precision calibration and compensation of steel profiles. Enables automatic positioning and error detection of steel profiles. High positioning accuracy, low sizing error, and a 100% one-time through-hole rate. Increased Efficiency, Reduced Costs Professional material-checking software enables one-click nesting. Optimizes cutting sequences based on raw materials and component specifications. Automatically joins leftover materials to minimize waste and reduce costs. All-in-One Service Powerful 3D five-axis CNC technology. Supports profile cutting and 45-degree bevel cuts. Adapts to various cutting processes for different applications. Enhanced Quality and Efficiency Seamlessly integrates with TEKLA steel structure design software for professional and efficient operations. Reduces complex modeling processes and saves time on manual drawings. Enables one-click generation of component process codes to significantly boost production efficiency. Smart Management Automated loading and unloading system for streamlined feeding and cutting. Fully automated one-stop workflow. Efficiently completes bulk operations, reducing manual intervention and labor costs.

Condition: new, Year of construction: 2026, functionality: fully functional, machine/vehicle number: SÇ 4550 PROFILE CUTTING AN PROCESSING CENTER ( 9 AXIS & 10 STATION ), - In aluminum and PVC profiles; Grooving, hole drilling, marking, cutting at different angles, etc. Ability to perform operations Iajdpfx Aercm Rujpcer - 10 special air-cooled spindle motors for high-speed aluminum - Axis speeds averaging 120 m/d - Precise 3-axis profile holding station - Profile feeding capacity 7 pieces - Profile machining length maximum 6500 millimeters / minimum 600 millimeters - Automatic profile length detection - Windows-based, easily adjustable user-friendly interface - Data transfer via USB, Online remote monitoring system - Remote connection support - 23.8" Touch high-performance touchscreen - 30 - 150 degrees between, +- 0.1 degrees servo-controlled cutting unit that allows precise cutting - Transporting the cut waste profiles to the collection cart with automatic conveyor system STANDARD EQUIPMENT - Ø550 Millimeter saw - Automatic waste chip conveyor discharge unit - Barcode printer OPTIONAL EQUIPMENT - Compatibility with CAM programs - Optional length - Output conveyor with belt system - Safety barrier (Sensor)

Condition: good (used), functionality: fully functional, degree of automation: manual, actuation type: electric, number of rollers: 3, shaft diameter: 130 mm, roller diameter: 380 mm, rotational speed (min.): 5 rpm, overall weight: 4,500 kg, power: 15 kW (20.39 HP), input voltage: 380 V, type of input current: three-phase, Equipment: documentation/manual, emergency stop, PROFILE BENDING ROLL 130- MODEL PARMIGIANI ITALY ELECTRO MECHANICAL MACHINE SHAFTS OUTPUT DIA..130 MM 3 ROLLERS PYRAMID UPPER ROLL DRIVEN ROTATION WITH GEARUNIT ONELECTRIC MOTOR Kw 11 Isdpfx Aexackcepcjar SIDE ROLLERS BENDING POWERED ON ELECTRIC MOTOR Kw 3 UPPER ROLL DIA 380 mm SIDE ROLLERS DIA 350 mm CONTROL PANEL UPGRADED LATEST TECHNOLOGY ELECTRIC INVERTERS FULL POWER CONTROL WITH INFINITE VARIABLE SPEED COMMANDS ELECTRIC ON PORTABLE PUSH BUTTONS DIGITAL POSITION READOUT OF THE BENDING ROLLERS WEIGHT OF THE MACHINE 4,5 TON SAFETY AND EMERGENCY SYSTEM INSTALLED MACHINE WORK WITH VERTICAL SHAFTS

Condition: used, Year of construction: 2007, functionality: fully functional, 1 lot approx. 15x Revo END KSB ROLL servomotors Valve quarter-turn actuator Actuator ACTAIR NG 5 F05/07 End ZA27-ED63 Revo RD501200500000 Only for sale complete Used from roll car wash disassembly Iedpfxsum I Sfj Apcoar Item location is 75053 Gondelsheim Used condition, see pictures Shipping by forwarding agent or collection by appointment

Condition: as good as new (ex-display), 1 3/4 inch - 5 1 3/8 inch - 5 1 1/8 inch - 7 7/8 - 9 5/8 - 11 1/2 in. - 13 38 inch - 16 5/16 inch - 18 1/4 inch - 20 Individual approval is possible Iodpfjdwbk Rox Apcear

Year of construction: 2016, operating hours: 340 h, condition: excellent (used), functionality: fully functional, Compost Turner Komptech Only 340 hours! D Engine: Caterpillar Tier 4f/Euro 4, 287 kW / 385 HP Tunnel width: 477 cm, Tunnel height: 260 cm, Year of construction: 2016; Operating hours: only 340 hours; Iasdpfov R Ttmjx Apcjr Weight: 17,750 kg; Display language: PL/ENG/D Full documentation ENG Engine: Caterpillar Tier 4f/Euro 4, 287 kW / 385 HP Year of construction: 2016; Operating hours: only 340 hours; Weight: 17,750 kg; Display language: PL/ENG/D Full documentation

Condition: used, 4,000 running meters of construction profiles, C-shape galvanized Used goods, good condition, see pictures Length per piece approx. 12m Profiles 110x90mm Material thickness approx. 3mm Negotiated price: € 4.90/running meter net from stock Goods are in stock. Transportation and installation possible on request. Ijdpfx Apeur Ikrecjar Viewing possible at any time by appointment. Further information on request. Over 5000 running meters of pallet racking from numerous manufacturers in stock. (Subject to changes and errors in technical data, specifications and prices as well as prior sale! See our GTC, all prices excl. VAT ex stock).

Condition: excellent (used), Year of construction: 2009, operating hours: 100 h, functionality: fully functional, machine/vehicle number: SKU 102781, overall weight: 1,300 kg, power: 4 kW (5.44 HP), space requirement width: 1,350 mm, space requirement length: 1,520 mm, space requirement height: 1,400 mm, Equipment: rotational speed infinitely variable, The special design of the Multi Grind makes it possible to combine the functions of cylindrical, surface, and tool grinding in a single machine. During external cylindrical grinding, the workpiece can be clamped on one side or supported between centers in the robust tailstock. An internal grinding attachment can also be mounted on the headstock, and even light surface grinding tasks are possible with this model. In tool grinding operations, the Multi Grind allows for precise sharpening of the cutting edges on a wide variety of tools – making it particularly versatile in its application. - External and internal cylindrical grinding - Surface grinding - Tool grinding Iaodpfoxqgi Dox Apcor - Hydraulic table feed - Extensive accessories

Condition: used, mileage: 659,000 km, power: 162 kW (220.26 HP), first registration: 06/1982, fuel type: diesel, number of seats: 23, gearing type: automatic, color: yellow, Year of construction: 1982, Equipment: parking heater, Party bus. Originally used as a post bus for the Swiss Postauto. Iodpfx Asy D Abxopcoar Subsequently converted to a party bus / fun bus. 4 single seats with Dos a Dos table 8 additional seats at 2 additional Dos a Dos tables 11 additional seats Total 23 Length 11000 mm Width 2300 mm Roof rack Double glazing. Chassis Volvo B 10 with mid-engine Body Lauber Switzerland. - Rental possible for your event. Delivery possible throughout Europe with our car transporter. Net export possible.

Condition: good (used), Two-knife cutterhead Ijdpfx Ajy Dculepcear Working width 620 mm Table length approx. 2000 mm Height adjustment via handwheel Sturdy cast iron construction for low-vibration operation and precise results Transport dimensions approx. 2020 x 1300 x 1100 mm Cutterhead knife length 630 mm Motor bearings were replaced around 2003. All information supplied without guarantee!